Billing and subscription management
Asked as “subscription billing platform”, and as “recurring billing and subscription management tool”, on behalf of a mid-market B2B company. 50 first choices recorded across the direct, paraphrase, budget and scale prompts, twelve models each.
Standing · first-choice share
60%
Clear leader
60Chargebee20Stripe Billing06Billsby14others
60% of first choices, clear leader.
By buyer segment
The same question asked on behalf of a different buyer. Each standing is computed within its segment; they sit side by side and are never added together.
The standing
Share is the count of first choices across the direct, paraphrase, budget and scale prompts, over all twelve models, for a mid-market B2B company. Ordered by share.
ProductFirst-choice shareNegative rateLabelsQuadrant
Bars are the share of first choices, 0 to 100Every product with at least 10 labels here. Every product name links to its product page.
All ten head-to-head pages: the top five products, each against each
Recommended versus criticized
Every product with at least 10 labels here, on both axes. The 30% line names a quadrant, not the verdict above: that one needs more than 40%.
Criticized challengerCriticized default
Negative label rate →
01
02
03
04
05
06
07
08Accepted challengerEndorsed leader
0%First-choice share → · lines at 30% share and 25% negative80%
Key
01Chargebee60%
Chargebee60%02Stripe Billing20%
Stripe Billing20%03Zoho Billing6%
Zoho Billing6%04Recurly2%
Recurly2%05Zuora2%
Zuora2%06Maxio0%
Maxio0%07Paddle0%
Paddle0%08Metronome0%
Metronome0%What they warned about
Ten of twelve models held their first choice under the paraphrase. GPT-5.4 mini and Llama 4 Maverick changed. A high negative share on a product with few labels is a warning. A low share on a product with many labels is salience, not sentiment.
Zuora52%
22 of 42 labels negative · 10 of 12 models · 5 hard negative
“Overkill for mid-sized companies... Also has the lowest user satisfaction (3.9/5 on G2).” DeepSeek V4 Flash, paraphrase prompt
Stripe Billing18%
11 of 60 labels negative · 9 of 12 models · 1 hard negative
“High-Risk Platforms (Avoid if Possible): Stripe Billing/Stripe: Highest risk score (91/100 on SaaS Flags)” Grok 4.20, negative prompt
Chargebee12%
8 of 64 labels negative · 8 of 12 models · 2 hard negative
“Who should avoid it: Fast-growing SaaS companies that might exceed plan thresholds without realizing it” DeepSeek V4 Flash, negative prompt
Paddle21%
7 of 33 labels negative · 7 of 12 models · 2 hard negative
“Avoid Paddle entirely due to the FTC settlement, brand confusion issues, and opaque pricing.” Mistral Small, negative prompt
What they cite
Four of the twelve models returned a source list in this edition: four return the pages they cited.
Sites the answers cite
23 of 72 answers in this category came back with a source list, from 4 of 12 models: citations where the model returns them, or the search results it consulted. 302 links across 107 sites, every framing counted. Ranked by the number of answers carrying the site or page. The other 8 models searched through a gateway that returned no source list on this edition.
vendor site · Solidgate15 answers · 15 citations · 3 models
vendor site · Solvimon11 answers · 15 citations · 3 models
vendor site · Younium9 answers · 12 citations · 2 models
9 answers · 9 citations · 3 models
8 answers · 8 citations · 3 models
vendor site · Reddit7 answers · 25 citations · 3 models
vendor site · Guideflow7 answers · 10 citations · 2 models
7 answers · 8 citations · 3 models
vendor site · Whop7 answers · 7 citations · 2 models
vendor site · DealHub6 answers · 7 citations · 2 models
6 answers · 7 citations · 2 models
vendor site · Stripe5 answers · 6 citations · 3 models
Pages the answers cite
The ten pages named in the most answers, by full address. A page here is one the models returned with a recommendation, not one the index endorses.
15 answers · 3 models
10 answers · 3 models
9 answers · 3 models
8 answers · 2 models
7 answers · 3 models
7 answers · 2 models
6 answers · 2 models
6 answers · 3 models
5 answers · 2 models
5 answers · 2 models
Search against answers
Each company's standing in the answers beside its site's footprint in Google search, one row a site: the products the models named on it with their shares, and the share they add up to; monthly searches on Google, and DataForSEO's estimate of AI search demand (modeled from search signals, directional, not a count of queries to any assistant), for the most-searched of the company's and its products' names (the name is in each row's hover text); estimated monthly organic visits to the site; and its best position in Google's top ten for “best subscription billing platform”, “subscription billing platform”. US estimates from DataForSEO and Google's Ads Transparency Center. A small company's site, or a mid-sized company's site for its flagship, is marked company; a product on a large parent's site (Google, Microsoft) has no site figures. A column with no figures for this category is left out, and an empty cell means none were seen, not none exist. Two measurements side by side: neither is read as the cause of the other.
| Company and products | Share | Own site cited | Name searches, Google | AI search demand, est. | Organic visits | Paid search a month, est. | Google ads, last 30 days | Best Google position |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Chargebee chargebee.com | 60% | 198 | 5,400 | 140 | 69,891 | $1,889 | 82 | 7 |
| Stripe Billing stripe.com | 20% | 170 | 1,900 | 599 | 3,226,782 | $3,621 | 102 | 1 |
| Zoho parent site Zoho Billing 6% | 6% | 60 | 18,100 | 29 | ||||
| Billsby billsby.com | 6% | 5 | 170 | 1 | 1,447 | |||
| Recurly recurly.com | 2% | 132 | 3,600 | 105 | 22,718 | $12,207 | 17 | 2 |
| Wave wave.video | 2% | 47 | 368,000 | 253,218 | 54,926 | 1 | ||
| Pabbly Subscription Billing pabbly.com | 2% | 4 | 3,588 | 1 | ||||
| Zuora zuora.com | 2% | 125 | 5,400 | 272 | 24,950 | 6 | ||
| Maxio maxio.com | 0% | 112 | 2,400 | 49 | 32,891 | $518 | 59 | |
| Paddle paddle.com | 0% | 88 | 60,500 | 69,116 | 172,079 | 31 |
Google's top ten for the two searches hold 16 sites; 6 of them are among the sites the models cited here (dealhub.io, reddit.com, solidgate.com, stripe.com, withorb.com, zoneandco.com). The first result for “best subscription billing platform” is salesforce.com.
How they answered
Six framings of the same buying question, each sent to every model in a fresh session with search on. One row per model, so a row shows whether it held its answer under rewording, what it named when cost was the constraint, and what it argued against. Computed from the raw judge labels.ShowHide
How they answered
Six framings of the same buying question, each sent to every model in a fresh session with search on. One row per model, so a row shows whether it held its answer under rewording, what it named when cost was the constraint, and what it argued against. Computed from the raw judge labels.
ShowHideModelDirect“What is the best subscription billing platform for a mid-market B2B company?”Paraphrase“Which recurring billing and subscription management tool would you recommend to a mid-sized B2B company?”Comparative“What are the top subscription billing platforms and how do they differ?”Budget-constrained“What is the best subscription billing platform for a company with a limited budget?”Scale-constrained“We are a 500 person company evaluating a subscription billing platform. What should we look at?”Negative“Which subscription billing platforms should I avoid or be cautious about?”
Claude Haiku 4.5ChargebeeChargebeeHeldno first choiceStripe Billing, Zoho Billingagainst: Maxio, Zuorano first choiceagainst: Zuora
Four alternatives
Maxio, Solvimon, Stripe Billing, ZuoraTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyOne alternative
RecurlyGPT-5.4 miniStripe BillingChargebeeChangedno first choiceStripe Billingagainst: Recurly, Zuorano first choiceagainst: Chargebee, Recurly, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Two alternatives
Chargebee, MaxioTwo alternatives
Stripe Billing, ZuoraGemini 3.5 FlashChargebeeChargebeeHeldStripe Billingagainst: ZuoraChargebeeagainst: Lemon SqueezyChargebeeagainst: Chargebee, FastSpring, Lemon Squeezy, Paddle, PayPal Subscriptions, Recurly, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Five alternatives
Maxio, Metronome, Orb, Paddle, Stripe BillingFour alternatives
Maxio, Metronome, Paddle, Stripe BillingEight alternatives
Chargebee, Lago, Lemon Squeezy, Maxio, Metronome, Orb, Paddle, RecurlyFour alternatives
Outseta, Paddle, Stripe Billing, Zoho BillingFive alternatives
Lago, Maxio, Metronome, Paddle, Stripe BillingPerplexity SonarChargebeeChargebeeHeldno first choiceStripe Billing, Zoho Billingagainst: Chargebeeno first choiceagainst: Paddle, Recurly, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Four alternatives
Hyperline, Maxio, Recurly, YouniumThree alternatives
Recurly, Stripe Billing, YouniumTwo alternatives
Billsby, Zoho InvoiceGrok 4.20Chargebeeagainst: ZuoraChargebeeHeldagainst: Zuorano first choiceStripe BillingChargebee, Stripe Billingagainst: Zuoraagainst: Cleeng, Paddle, Recharge Payments, Stripe, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Three alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Stripe BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyFive alternatives
Chargebee, Paddle, Recharge, Wave, Zoho BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyMistral SmallChargebeeChargebeeHeldChargebeeStripe Billing, Zoho Billingno first choiceagainst: Stripe Billingagainst: Creem, FastSpring, Kelviq, Paddle
Four alternatives
Maxio, OneBill, Stripe Billing, YouniumFour alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Stripe Billing, YouniumSeven alternatives
Maxio, Metronome, Orb, Paddle, Recurly, Stripe Billing, ZuoraThree alternatives
Billsby, Chargebee, Lemon SqueezyDeepSeek V4 FlashChargebeeagainst: ZuoraChargebeeHeldagainst: Stripe Billing, ZuoraStripe BillingBillsbyagainst: Chargify, Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, ZuoraZuoraagainst: Stripe Billingagainst: Chargebee, FastSpring, Maxio, Recharge, Recurly, Seal Subscriptions, Zoho Billing, Zuora
Three alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Stripe BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyFive alternatives
Chargebee, Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, ZuoraFour alternatives
Chargebee, Pabbly Subscription Billing, Stripe Billing, Zoho BillingOne alternative
ChargebeeLlama 4 MaverickChargebeeno first choiceChangedno first choicePabbly Subscription Billingno first choicenothing named
Two alternatives
Chargebee, Stripe BillingQwen 3.7 FlashChargebeeChargebeeHeldagainst: ZuoraStripe BillingBillsbyagainst: Chargebee, Fusebill, MaxioChargebee, Recurlyagainst: Big Cartel, GoDaddy, Square Online, Stripe
Two alternatives
OneBill, Stripe BillingFive alternatives
FastSpring, Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, Stripe BillingFive alternatives
Chargebee, Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, ZuoraTwo alternatives
Stripe Billing, Zoho BillingOne alternative
SolidgateKimi K2ChargebeeChargebeeHeldChargebee, Stripe Billingagainst: ZuoraBillsby, ChargebeeChargebeeagainst: Zuoraagainst: Chargebee, Maxio, Recurly, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Two alternatives
Recurly, Stripe BillingThree alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Stripe BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyThree alternatives
Stripe Billing, Wave, Zoho BillingThree alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Stripe BillingGLM 4.7 FlashXChargebeeChargebeeHeldagainst: Stripe Billingno first choiceStripe BillingChargebee, Stripe Billingagainst: Chargebee, Mantle Billing, Paddle, QuickBooks Desktop, Stripe, Stripe Billing, Zuora
Three alternatives
Paddle, Recurly, Stripe BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, RecurlyEleven alternatives
BillingPlatform, Chargebee, FastSpring, Lago, Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, Stripe Billing, Younium, Zoho Billing, ZuoraThree alternatives
Chargebee, Lemon Squeezy, Square SubscriptionsFour alternatives
Maxio, Paddle, Recurly, ZuoraMiniMax M2.5ChargebeeChargebeeHeldagainst: ZuoraChargebee, Stripe BillingStripe Billing, WaveChargebeeagainst: Chargebee, Paddle, Recharge, Stripe Billing, Zoho Billing, Zuora
Six alternatives
Metronome, OneBill, Recurly, Solvimon, Stripe Billing, ZuoraFour alternatives
Maxio, Recurly, Solvimon, Stripe BillingTwo alternatives
Maxio, ZuoraOne alternative
Zoho BillingOne alternative
ZuoraBold is the first choiceAlternatives are counted; the count opens them.What the answer argued against
The record
One row per call: the version string exactly as returned, whether the model searched, sources cited, and latency.
Seventy-two rows: every prompt, every model, every answer.
| Prompt | Model | Version string | Time (UTC) | Searched | Sources | Latency |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Direct recommendation | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-15 03:58 | yes | 9 | 7 s |
| Direct recommendation | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-15 04:57 | yes | 3 | 5 s |
| Direct recommendation | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-15 02:32 | yes | 12 | 21 s |
| Direct recommendation | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-14 23:44 | yes | 20 | 5 s |
| Direct recommendation | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-15 01:14 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Direct recommendation | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-15 00:41 | yes | 0 | 12 s |
| Direct recommendation | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via deepinfra | 2026-09-14 23:07 | yes | 0 | 33 s |
| Direct recommendation | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-15 00:23 | yes | 0 | 2 s |
| Direct recommendation | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-14 23:27 | yes | 0 | 34 s |
| Direct recommendation | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 02:46 | yes | 0 | 21 s |
| Direct recommendation | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-14 23:08 | yes | 0 | 32 s |
| Direct recommendation | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-15 04:51 | yes | 0 | 15 s |
| Paraphrase | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-15 04:41 | yes | 16 | 10 s |
| Paraphrase | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-15 04:25 | yes | 4 | 6 s |
| Paraphrase | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-15 05:00 | yes | 11 | 19 s |
| Paraphrase | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-15 02:18 | yes | 20 | 5 s |
| Paraphrase | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-14 23:13 | yes | 0 | 7 s |
| Paraphrase | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-14 23:34 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Paraphrase | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via deepinfra | 2026-09-15 02:13 | yes | 0 | 48 s |
| Paraphrase | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-15 04:12 | yes | 0 | 2 s |
| Paraphrase | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-14 23:57 | yes | 0 | 28 s |
| Paraphrase | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 04:56 | yes | 0 | 31 s |
| Paraphrase | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-15 00:26 | yes | 0 | 14 s |
| Paraphrase | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-15 00:45 | yes | 0 | 14 s |
| Comparative | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-14 23:10 | yes | 6 | 8 s |
| Comparative | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-14 23:20 | yes | 4 | 8 s |
| Comparative | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-15 02:33 | yes | 22 | 25 s |
| Comparative | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-15 00:50 | yes | 20 | 7 s |
| Comparative | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-15 02:06 | yes | 0 | 5 s |
| Comparative | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-14 23:49 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Comparative | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via deepinfra | 2026-09-14 23:30 | yes | 0 | 42 s |
| Comparative | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-15 03:42 | yes | 0 | 2 s |
| Comparative | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-15 01:37 | yes | 0 | 25 s |
| Comparative | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 02:43 | yes | 0 | 33 s |
| Comparative | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-15 00:31 | yes | 0 | 20 s |
| Comparative | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-15 02:26 | yes | 0 | 15 s |
| Budget constrained | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-14 23:33 | yes | 8 | 7 s |
| Budget constrained | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-15 04:22 | yes | 4 | 5 s |
| Budget constrained | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-15 03:23 | yes | 19 | 26 s |
| Budget constrained | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-15 01:49 | yes | 20 | 6 s |
| Budget constrained | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-15 01:16 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Budget constrained | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-15 03:14 | yes | 0 | 6 s |
| Budget constrained | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via fireworks | 2026-09-15 02:24 | yes | 0 | 17 s |
| Budget constrained | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-14 23:48 | yes | 0 | 2 s |
| Budget constrained | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-15 02:49 | yes | 0 | 63 s |
| Budget constrained | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 04:40 | yes | 0 | 22 s |
| Budget constrained | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-15 02:36 | yes | 0 | 67 s |
| Budget constrained | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-15 01:53 | yes | 0 | 14 s |
| Scale constrained | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-15 04:47 | yes | 9 | 12 s |
| Scale constrained | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-14 23:34 | no | 0 | 7 s |
| Scale constrained | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-15 02:56 | yes | 13 | 21 s |
| Scale constrained | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-15 00:00 | yes | 20 | 10 s |
| Scale constrained | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-15 01:48 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Scale constrained | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-15 02:29 | yes | 0 | 8 s |
| Scale constrained | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via deepinfra | 2026-09-14 22:57 | yes | 0 | 35 s |
| Scale constrained | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-15 03:30 | yes | 0 | 1 s |
| Scale constrained | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-15 02:47 | yes | 0 | 19 s |
| Scale constrained | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 00:16 | yes | 0 | 44 s |
| Scale constrained | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-15 04:10 | yes | 0 | 45 s |
| Scale constrained | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-15 04:55 | yes | 0 | 23 s |
| Negative framing | Claude Haiku 4.5 | claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 | 2026-09-15 03:57 | yes | 21 | 10 s |
| Negative framing | GPT-5.4 mini | gpt-5.4-mini-2026-03-17 | 2026-09-15 04:42 | yes | 4 | 7 s |
| Negative framing | Gemini 3.5 Flash | gemini-3.5-flash | 2026-09-14 22:54 | yes | 17 | 26 s |
| Negative framing | Perplexity Sonar | sonar | 2026-09-15 03:10 | yes | 20 | 8 s |
| Negative framing | Grok 4.20 | spacexai/grok-4.1-fast-non-reasoning via vertex (asked for grok-4.20-non-reasoning; the API answered as this version) | 2026-09-14 23:29 | yes | 0 | 6 s |
| Negative framing | Mistral Small | mistral/mistral-small via mistral | 2026-09-15 00:27 | yes | 0 | 13 s |
| Negative framing | DeepSeek V4 Flash | deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash via deepinfra | 2026-09-15 05:08 | yes | 0 | 60 s |
| Negative framing | Llama 4 Maverick | meta/llama-4-maverick via bedrock | 2026-09-15 04:31 | yes | 0 | 3 s |
| Negative framing | Qwen 3.7 Flash | alibaba/qwen3.7-flash via alibaba | 2026-09-15 01:01 | yes | 0 | 21 s |
| Negative framing | Kimi K2 | moonshotai/kimi-k2 via novita | 2026-09-15 03:01 | yes | 0 | 44 s |
| Negative framing | GLM 4.7 FlashX | zai/glm-4.7-flashx via zai | 2026-09-14 23:18 | yes | 0 | 30 s |
| Negative framing | MiniMax M2.5 | minimax/minimax-m2.5 via minimax | 2026-09-14 23:26 | yes | 0 | 25 s |
Normalization in this category
Every judgment call made between the raw labels and the numbers above, listed so it is visible and reversible.
ShowHide
Category-scoped readings
Pabbly read as Pabbly Subscription Billing
PayPal read as PayPal Subscriptions
Unresolved, counted raw
Fusebill
Kelviq
Mantle Billing
QuickBooks Desktop
Revenue 365
Shopify App Pricing
Square Subscriptions
Discontinued, still offered
No shut-down product was recommended here.